EPISODE NAME: From the Ground Up — Musgrave Angus Built Their Operation Focusing on Function First 

HOSTS: Miranda Reiman and Mark McCully 

GUESTS: Tyler and Andy Musgrave  

Musgrave Angus wants to be known for balanced, moderate cattle that thrive in different environments. On this episode brothers Tyler and Andy Musgrave share their philosophy on using their own sires vs. sourcing outside genetics, how they’ve created outliers while also remaining consistent, and the importance of maintaining the traditional Angus “look.” From Bando 1961 to LD Capitalist, they tell the stories of some of their most well-known sires and give their outlook for the future challenges in the Angus breed.  

Brothers Tyler and Andy Musgrave are the second generation to raise Angus cattle on their western Illinois farm. Since 1961 Musgrave Angus has been breeding and selecting cattle that work in the fescue grass environment and perform under the stress of a humid climate. Feet, fleshing ability, structure and phenotype set the base for their program. Their parents, Melvin and Cathy Musgrave, started the operation. Today Tyler and his wife, Sarah, and their four sons; and Andy, his wife, Beth, and their three sons each take on their own roles.  

SPONSOR:  At Ingram Angus near Pulaski, Tenn., they have a code for doing business: “Integrity is what we stand by: good quality people who deal with good quality cattle.” Learn more about their program at IngramAngus.com. The whole Ingram crew wants to wish all the juniors “good luck” at their shows this summer. 

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New Maternal EPDs Expand Selection Tools for Users of Angus Genetics 

The People Business  

 Miranda Reiman (00:00:02):
Welcome to the Angus Conversation. I'm your host Miranda Reiman with my co-host Mark McCully, who is back in the United States and I guess ready for a busy summer, Mark. This is our final episode in season six.

Mark McCully (00:00:16):
That's crazy. One that we've been doing this for six seasons. Yeah,

Miranda Reiman (00:00:19):
It's been fun.


Mark McCully (00:00:20):
Seems like we just started. It has been. Every one is fun and yeah, six seasons and getting ready amazingly to all the, I was working on my calendar just yesterday because June's kind of shot on my calendar already and then off to July and National Junior Show and all the things and yeah, we're here.


Miranda Reiman (00:00:42):
That's right. My kids had their last day of school yesterday, so this is first day of freedom for them and the rest of us are, as you say, looking at our calendars, but there's so much good stuff. I can't be too stressed out about things getting filled in when there's so much good stuff. And kind of first on the Angus calendar in the next couple of weeks will be June board meetings where everyone will travel to Tennessee to be in President Jonathan Perry's home state there. So


Mark McCully (00:01:10):
Yeah, we're going to Nashville. Actually this week we've been doing online committee meetings or online to be over, virtual, there's the word I'm looking for virtual committee meetings where we have six different committees and so it's been a busy week of that and getting, I always think some of the pre-work done going in to make sure the board meetings when we come together face-to-face or is productive as we can make 'em and make good use of everybody's time and travels and such. And yeah, we'll have a special edition of the podcast coming out after the board meeting. Right as we wrap up. We'll try to get everybody gathered up and you're not going to be my, yeah, are you nervous? I'm very nervous actually. I'm very nervous, so I'll start laying out the disclaimers right now that I will not do as good of a job without Miranda there. But I will channel my inner Miranda and do the best I can to, I think Kelli's going to join me as maybe co-host and we'll grab some board members and we will talk through all the things we talked about.


Miranda Reiman (00:02:13):
That's right. I'm going to be chaperoning a junior high trip to Washington DC so I am excited about that, but I do get a little bit of FOMO because I like talking about all the great things to come in the breed. So yeah, we made sure you weren't just solo. Mark, we've got


Mark McCully (00:02:28):
You don't trust me to run solo, and that's good judgment right there


Miranda Reiman (00:02:31):
Kelli there to back you up. And then after that, we are already planning for our junior takeover of the Angus Conversation when we come to National Junior Angus Show. So excited to grab the youth again. We did that last year where we had kind of rapid fire. We released several episodes all at once so people could hopefully listen to 'em on their drives back home or if you're not at National Junior Angus show and get a little bit of that FOMO I just described, you can tune in and hear what happened down there in Tulsa.


Mark McCully (00:03:02):
Yeah, those will be, we did the inaugural ones last summer and they were a blast and super popular and look forward to round two. They'll be, I always just worry, I'm sure I'm going to lose my job getting, having all these young folks come in and do such a great job, but it's going to be fun.


Miranda Reiman (00:03:20):
They were super impressive and I'm definitely looking forward to it. I have been joking a little bit. The only thing I'm not looking forward to is being seven months pregnant in Tulsa in July, so if everyone could start praying now for a little bit of a cool weather streak, I would appreciate that. I've


Mark McCully (00:03:35):
Been telling everybody it's going to be 80 degrees, so I figure if I just keep saying it, it'll happen.


Miranda Reiman (00:03:40):
That's right. Replicate that Madison, Wisconsin weather we had. That was pretty good. Well, today's episode, just to kind of move right along today's episode of the podcast was really a fun one. We've had a lot of people that we've covered over the course of the years and the seasons, but a name that we've had on our list and we got to visit with, Andy and Tyler Musgrave. So brother pair, that might have been, is that the first time we've had brothers on?


Mark McCully (00:04:08):
That's a good question. We've done a lot of father sons or husband and wives and lots of pairs. I think you're right. I think it was the first pair of brothers and there was no squabbles.


Miranda Reiman (00:04:20):
That's right. So tune into this one. I think you'll really enjoy hearing about everything from their breeding philosophies to some stories behind kind of the big names to come out of the Musgrave program. Today on the podcast we are headed to Mark's native state of Illinois. So Mark, I'm going to pass the baton right over to you.


Mark McCully (00:04:43):
Yeah, going down to Musgrave Angus. So we've got Tyler and Andy joining us here from, I always say Griggsville, I guess you guys are down that Pittsfield, multiple little cities down in Pike County and obviously a name and an outfit that doesn't need much introduction. You guys have, you and your family have really been, had a huge influence on the Angus breed in particular here the last couple decades and so excited to have you guys join. And maybe I'll just have you guys start out, Tyler, maybe a little bit of your introduction. How about we start there?


Tyler Musgrave (00:05:20):
Sure. Mark, certainly want to thank you guys for inviting us to be on the Angus Conversation podcast today. It's a pleasure to be on here with you guys as a listener. It's quite an honor now to be on the show myself. So once again, thank you guys for the invite. So I guess the home base here in Griggsville, Illinois, down in Pike County and kind of the Pittsville area here, been raising in Angus cattle here for I guess all of my life. Melvin started raising the Angus cattle back in the sixties, but Angus cattle are certainly a passion of ours, something that we eat, sleep, and breathe and we do it every day. Been blessed here with family here. Got four sons. My wife is actually a Pike County native as well. But yeah, I've been home based here at Pike County, but I guess it's God's country. It's a great place to raise a family and raise Angus cattle.


Miranda Reiman (00:06:17):
Love that.


Mark McCully (00:06:19):
And Andy, remind me of your path. I know you were at Oklahoma State at one point. Did you go to Black Hawk first?


Andy Musgrave (00:06:26):
Yes. I graduated high school in 1995 and I was on the livestock judging team at Black Hawk. I was on our state 4-H judging team I guess my freshman year at Black Hawk. We were on that. From Black Hawk, transferred to Oklahoma State and I had a liking or a love for Angus cattle and when I attended Oklahoma State, I worked at the Purebred Beef Center under Cindy Pribil and Mark Johnson. So learned a lot of things there, saw some new concepts and it was, going to school can get monotonous and tiring of setting, but you could always go back out and kind of feel some stress relief with working with the cattle and feeling like you were doing something that you're accustomed to doing as you grew up. Graduated there in, let's see, graduated there in I guess '99, 2000 somewhere there. Moved back home here, farmed here, raised cattle here and married my wife, which my wife and Tyler's wife are sisters. That's kind of ironic,


Mark McCully (00:07:38):
I was ask about that. Yeah,


Miranda Reiman (00:07:39):
That simplifies family get togethers, doesn't it?


Andy Musgrave (00:07:43):
So they're sisters, Beth and Sarah. Beth is my wife, Sarah is Tyler's wife, and I've got four sons, Braden, Adam and Ben.


Tyler Musgrave (00:07:52):
You've got three sons, I've got four sons.


Andy Musgrave (00:07:54):
Braden, Adam and Ben. Ben's youngest. Adam, or Braden has graduated from Lake Land College and he is back here working alongside us now. Adam will be starting as a junior at the University of Illinois next fall. Ben is graduating the eighth grade next Thursday. So mine are just about out of the nest and Tyler's have a long ways to go.


Tyler Musgrave (00:08:21):
I'm kind of spread out with mine.


Andy Musgrave (00:08:23):
So our kids are full sibling blood.


Mark McCully (00:08:24):
Yeah. Tyler, what's the age range on your boys?


Tyler Musgrave (00:08:30):
Yeah, so I was going to say if you've ever been to the Angus Hall of Fame, I think there's a photograph Tom Burke has in there somewhere that we have seven full sibs in blood between Andy and I. He's got a photo of us.


Andy Musgrave (00:08:41):
They're all bulls.


Tyler Musgrave (00:08:42):
Yeah, bull brothers in blood. Yep. We're pretty prolific sire. Not calving ease, though. Definitely not calving ease sires here in the family.


Mark McCully (00:08:52):
So guys,


Tyler Musgrave (00:08:54):
I've got a wide range. My youngest is five, he was born in 2020. Kind of what we, Sarah and I call our surprise. He was born three days after the bull sale. So that was a roller coaster that year anyway, 2020 and then having a baby a few days after sale day,


Andy Musgrave (00:09:11):
COVID year, wasn't it?


Tyler Musgrave (00:09:12):
That was a year of COVID. My oldest, Eli is a freshman in high school. He loves FFA and active in 4-H and likes to be involved in showing cattle and FFA, livestock judging. Loves to go to the competitions and he's got a real, he's got an eye for it. He's pretty good. Very,


Andy Musgrave (00:09:32):
I think they like hunting more than anything though.


Tyler Musgrave (00:09:35):
They do love to hunt.


Andy Musgrave (00:09:35):
Oh, ducks hunt, Turkey hunt, deer hunt. We are big hunters.


Tyler Musgrave (00:09:39):
They love to hunt.


Miranda Reiman (00:09:40):
You guys are in a good location for that.


Tyler Musgrave (00:09:43):
Oh, there's a lot of critters around here. So yeah, Sam is 12, Ian is 10 and Kai is five. So it's going to be a while before I have an empty desk.


Miranda Reiman (00:09:54):
I feel you there, Tyler, in the age range thing. I bet you're a little bit like our family. When we get the school calendar, we just cross off what we don't have to go to rather than highlight what we do have to go to. You know, one in every stage, you've got every spring concert program activity there is. Yeah, track meet, et cetera.


Tyler Musgrave (00:10:15):
Oh yeah, our calendar fills up.


Andy Musgrave (00:10:16):
Ben starts driver's ed in June. It's hard to believe.


Miranda Reiman (00:10:19):
Hallelujah. Right? Hallelujah.


Mark McCully (00:10:23):
So guys, when you came back to the farm, was that always kind of the intent to come back and how did that work?


Tyler Musgrave (00:10:31):
I guess from a young age I always knew that I wanted to farm and I had an opportunity to stay here. I just went to a local community college, John Wood Community College here. It's not very far from, based here in Pike County. They've got an ag satellite division there, but I had an opportunity to start grain farming at a young age and rent some land and stuff. So I had an opportunity I didn't want to miss and I attended junior college and then kind of slowly evolved and then Andy was back here. We were farming together and then we wanted to improve our Angus cow herd. We wanted to grow and expand and it's taken a long time and it has been a little bit at a time and adding a few cows here and there and trying to improve some cow families and add some genetics and one thing after another. But I guess it was always kind of my intention to farm and be in agriculture. It's something I really like. It's who I am.


Andy Musgrave (00:11:34):
Yeah, yeah. I guess I would that kind of the same remarks as he made


Mark McCully (00:11:40):
And now you got to make room for seven boys now, right? Is that the plan?


Andy Musgrave (00:11:46):
I have no idea.


Tyler Musgrave (00:11:47):
Yeah, that's a lot of boys. Yeah. Make room for seven boys, something like that.


Mark McCully (00:11:54):
That's called growth.


Andy Musgrave (00:11:55):
Have to have 7,000 cows.


Tyler Musgrave (00:11:56):
That's right. This day and age. Yeah.


Mark McCully (00:12:00):
So maybe a little more background maybe on Musgrave Angus, started by your dad, Melvin. Was he the first, the generation to start running registered cows or did it start before that?


Tyler Musgrave (00:12:15):
He was first. Melvin was first, so I guess our family's been involved in agriculture here in Pike County for well over a hundred years. My grandpa, he had hogs and he had a few cattle but was mainly into hogs. My dad raised a lot of hogs when he was younger growing up and


Andy Musgrave (00:12:31):
Everybody had hogs in this county


Tyler Musgrave (00:12:33):
At one time. Used to be the hog capital World County, Illinois was right hog capital of the world right here. So a lot of pigs and a lot of things have changed since then. There's still a lot of hogs in Pike County, but they're all under roof and you wouldn't know it


Andy Musgrave (00:12:47):
...did he buy his first heifer.


Tyler Musgrave (00:12:48):
So Melvin actually didn't even, he didn't buy it.


Andy Musgrave (00:12:51):
He didn't buy it. Yeah, he didn't have to buy it.


Tyler Musgrave (00:12:53):
But the first Angus heifer was given to him.


Andy Musgrave (00:12:56):
Yeah, we still have the same cow family.


Tyler Musgrave (00:12:58):
Yeah, the story goes, I think it was in like 1962 and he wanted to get a 4- H heifer to take for a 4-H project.


Andy Musgrave (00:13:06):
It was in the fall


Tyler Musgrave (00:13:08):
And he gets home from school one day and they went up the road to New Salem, north up here at New Salem, the Clegler Farm.


Andy Musgrave (00:13:14):
No, they're right here.


Tyler Musgrave (00:13:16):
Well no, to get a Hereford heifer


Andy Musgrave (00:13:18):
Yeah, but they were gone


Tyler Musgrave (00:13:19):
And the guy wasn't home. They knocked and the guy wasn't there and Melvin said that that was fate right there because if that guy had been home, we'd been Hereford for years.


Mark McCully (00:13:28):
It'd be Musgrave Herefords


Tyler Musgrave (00:13:31):
Then he went over to the other neighbor who just lives about half a mile from the home place there. And that guy was home and he had Angus cattle.


Andy Musgrave (00:13:42):
Ernie.


Tyler Musgrave (00:13:43):
Yep, Ernie Lambeth was his name, and Ernie made a deal with Melvin that if he took three heifers and kept them through the winter and through the summer and broke all three of them to lead and take care of 'em that he would let him pick one of them for free at the end of the season. And that was his first female. And that was the initial Lady Barbara, the initial Lady Barbara cow family, that was that first cow.


Andy Musgrave (00:14:06):
And they lived in a little chicken coop right where our shed... sits right now where we keep our bulls at


Tyler Musgrave (00:14:11):
Right there in the backyard. So it all started from a pretty small 4-H project and now it's grown into something much different.


Mark McCully (00:14:22):
So fast forward to where you guys are today. You guys also farm quite a bit. Maybe give us a little lay of the land of what Musgrave Angus looks like today.


Andy Musgrave (00:14:30):
Grain farm, just say 1500 acres of corn and 1500, probably, beans. There's, how many acres of pasture you think there is?


Tyler Musgrave (00:14:41):
I don't know, probably 1,500 or so?


Andy Musgrave (00:14:43):
Probably 1,500 acres of grass spread out in different places, either owned or rented. We've been busy here the last couple weeks moving cows, split the heifer calves from the bull calves, take those to summer grass. Cows with heifer calves would go south of here, 15 miles to summer pastures. Cows with bull cows will stay closer to home and we can watch 'em manage 'em better. So basically as soon as our sale's over March, we'll start delivering cattle. It gets really busy and hectic. Next thing you know it's time to breed cows. Next thing you know the neighbors are planting corn, dust flying. So you got to do that. So it's really, really, really busy. In April. I plant all the corn. Tyler works the ground. My dad plants all the soybeans food. That's just how that goes. Springs are quicker than fall, then you have to harvest all that in the fall and that becomes very, very time consuming.


Miranda Reiman (00:15:39):
Especially when mother Nature is involved.


Andy Musgrave (00:15:42):
Yeah,


Tyler Musgrave (00:15:42):
Absolutely.


Andy Musgrave (00:15:43):
But our crop is, I think it's off to a really good start this year. Our corn stands are excellent, beans look good. We had two and a half inches of rain here a couple nights ago. I think there's been some dry areas, but we're pretty good right through here on moisture. Been, just been pretty even all spring. So we'll see if it keeps coming. We've started into some hay fields. We've wet wrapped some triticale, kind of the last few jobs we've been working on and mowed some grass hay to turn cows out on that. So we're kind of entering into hay season. Cows are on grass. They'd be putting in a few second round embryos, winding down.


Tyler Musgrave (00:16:25):
The boys are home from school, they want to start a bit of more time working with 4-H projects and then they want to go to shows, to go to the fairs,


Andy Musgrave (00:16:34):
Cleaning up our winter messes, hauling manure, all kinds of stuff.


Tyler Musgrave (00:16:38):
Continue to chase our tail.


Mark McCully (00:16:41):
So some show pigs. Do you guys do some show pigs? Right.


Andy Musgrave (00:16:44):
So I don't have any on feed this year in my shed. I'm having withdrawals, I'm having.


Mark McCully (00:16:51):
OK.


Tyler Musgrave (00:16:51):
No show pigs for Andy.


Mark McCully (00:16:52):
Didn't mean to bring up a sore subject.


Tyler Musgrave (00:16:55):
Our sister's got some. She's got some show pigs.


Andy Musgrave (00:16:58):
She has nine barrows on feed, which is plenty to keep you busy, exercising and all that they get nowadays done to them. But my middle boy showed them, he's working this summer and he's kind of aged out of that. And my youngest boy Ben, he's got a steer and a heifer. He is working every day on those. Unfortunately they're not black, but that's what he's doing.


Miranda Reiman (00:17:26):
You'll get 'em converted eventually, right?


Andy Musgrave (00:17:31):
They're hard to buy. You can't afford 'em. They bring a lot.


Miranda Reiman (00:17:35):
Yeah, very good. So when you guys came back, how did you exactly decide who was going to, I heard you just say, you do all the corn, dad does all the soybeans, all of that. How'd you decide those roles? Was it just naturally what you were interested in or did somebody declare it? How does that work?


Tyler Musgrave (00:17:53):
I think Andy just hopped in the corn planter one day and he went and planted corn and Melvin said that looks pretty good. I thought it looks all right. And then it was just his job after that.


Andy Musgrave (00:18:03):
I'm real picky with a corn plant though. I have to have perfectly straight rows. Everything has to be so so. There's so much computerized stuff in the tractor. It's hard to explain how to do it. So I did plant some corn at the end of the year. Not too tough once you do it, but there's a lot of stuff to watch, a lot of monitors,


Miranda Reiman (00:18:20):
So you've just got to be the pickiest one and you get assigned the task?


Tyler Musgrave (00:18:25):
Pretty much, yeah.


Andy Musgrave (00:18:28):
Yeah. But nobody knows how to run this new...


Tyler Musgrave (00:18:30):
So I don't know how to run that planter because, I need to learn how to do that at some point. We're kind of lackadaisical when it comes to grain farming. So yeah, we're a little more intense when it comes to the cow side things, I guess.


Miranda Reiman (00:18:44):
And how do you divide up all the cow work? I mean, is somebody making the genetic decisions or are you guys all three kind of taking a vote? How does that work?


Mark McCully (00:18:54):
Committee process?


Tyler Musgrave (00:18:56):
It's kind of a committee process I guess to a degree. We know, we all kind of know what we want to use and the last few years we've used a lot of our home-raised sires and bulls that we've sold through the production sale. And I think it's important to use your own bull and to prove him out and to get genetic, just to keep moving the genetics forward. And we've used a lot of our own bulls, but we kind of talk about what we're going to breed to and we'll have four or five sires that we raise, that we own that we want to for sure use. And then we'll have kind of a different assortment of bulls that we're going to flush to, to bring some different genetics in that way.


Andy Musgrave (00:19:36):
That's how we've been using outside bulls the last, we've


Tyler Musgrave (00:19:39):
We've been sourcing a lot of new genetics, basically through the ET program because you can kind of pick and choose which cow family, which cow or attributes, how she's going to mate or cross on some new bulls that we're bringing in because well


Andy Musgrave (00:19:53):
You got a whole, New Zealand, it's way different.


Tyler Musgrave (00:19:56):
Yeah. So yeah, that's part of my addiction. So Angus is my addiction. So anyway, yeah, so we implement a lot of new genetics through the ET program that kind of keep your bread and butter. What's going to keep building the cow herd, moving it forward that you can be confident in with these bulls. So a lot of the customers are repeat buyers and when they come to Musgrave Angus, they want to buy a Musgrave pedigree because you can maybe buy something else from a lot of different registered places, seedstock firms throughout the country, but they come here, they want to buy something that's unique and we use our own bulls. And I always thought to myself, I don't think Henry Ford drove a Chevy, so he probably drove a Ford. So if we're going to stand behind these cattle and improve, we got to use them. So that's what we do.


Andy Musgrave (00:20:48):
And it kind of looks like to me as you watch bull sales in the spring across the country, guys that dive into their own herd sire and put faith into it and would have a group of sons out of that generally are the ones that sell the best for that operation. So I think it's good for every operation to utilize their own genetics. Kind of prove out that they're


Mark McCully (00:21:10):
Have a program, right?


Andy Musgrave (00:21:11):
Yes, a program, exactly. It's important to do that. Not have 20 different sires listed of two of this and two of this and two of this.


Mark McCully (00:21:20):
So real quick, I really want to get into breeding philosophy. I know a lot of our listeners will really enjoy getting in your brains of how you're thinking about Angus cattle. Real quick on the program, you guys have a spring, your production sale, Pick 'em in Pike, which I believe was you just had an anniversary. Was it your 30th annual sale this spring?


Tyler Musgrave (00:21:43):
That's correct, yeah, we just had the 30th annual sale.


Andy Musgrave (00:21:46):
I just looked at the book, 30th.


Mark McCully (00:21:49):
And then you also started a fall sale here not too long ago, correct?


Tyler Musgrave (00:21:54):
That's right. So I think we just had the fifth. It's an online platform.


Andy Musgrave (00:21:59):
There've been five of them.


Tyler Musgrave (00:22:00):
We've had five of those online sales.


Mark McCully (00:22:02):
Okay.


Tyler Musgrave (00:22:03):
Kind of what we focus on with the online sale in November. We market a lot of our embryos and kind of our front end genetics through that embryo program. We just offer the embryos once a year kind of an event that I think a lot of people look forward to because we make a lot of these new genetics through the summer


Andy Musgrave (00:22:22):
We've utilized, I mean, that's the same matings we've put in and we're basically selling them out in the fall


Mark McCully (00:22:31):
Ones that you couldn't get put in


Andy Musgrave (00:22:33):
Going into the fall breeding while they're still current and hopefully


Tyler Musgrave (00:22:37):
And some we make a lot of our embryos in the summertime and we're a hundred percent IVF, so we like to get those donor cows pregnant. And then we just do kind of focus on the IVF thing. We've had good luck. I think IVF has came a long ways from where it started many years ago, but I think they've got the science down now and it's really became pretty successful. We've had really good luck with it. So I think one of the good parts and one of the very best parts about it is keeping that donor cow pregnant so she doesn't get stale and keep her in production so it's really good for her to keep her longevity up. So


Andy Musgrave (00:23:16):
We're getting ready to take cows next week that are pregnant, our donors coming up right after the calve, we will give them 45-60 days. We IVF'd them there in March I guess. And we put those embryos in and we have some of those left. But now we'll go back with those same cows after they're hopefully pregnant 60 days and take them to the ET center. And then that's where we do our IVF type stuff for maybe stuff we would offer in our sale along with the others in the fall


Tyler Musgrave (00:23:55):
Yep


Andy Musgrave (00:23:56):
That we focus on now. That cow gets used a lot


Tyler Musgrave (00:23:59):
Right? We've got big shoes to fill. So that's kind of the program there with the ET and the fall sale.


Mark McCully (00:24:09):
What's your philosophy on getting on, what's a donor cow? Do you use virgin heifers at all? Do you largely stick with more proven cows or what's your philosophy there?


Andy Musgrave (00:24:20):
We try to use proven cows. Cows that we like to look at. We like to look at cattle here. They have to be good looking, numbers have to be in balance. Phenotype is the hardest thing to breed. Numbers is the quickest thing to get. But a good combination I think is where we're trying to land on.


Tyler Musgrave (00:24:40):
That's kind of the sweet spot


Andy Musgrave (00:24:42):
Not wild figured and you can't look at the animal, but I want something you can stand to look at. So when you go outside every day and you're doing chores, you can enjoy what you're doing because you can stand there and look at 'em. You can get your cell phone out, take 50,000 pictures of her, but I like phenotype. So they have to be proven, have a track record behind them. They may have had cows that had a few bulls that we've sold well, cows have just proven cows that have nice daughters. We've flushed open heifers.


Tyler Musgrave (00:25:12):
And I probably have learned most of what I know from the school of hard knocks and I have flushed virgin heifers in the past and I've gotten along decent.


Andy Musgrave (00:25:22):
I got one great this year,


Tyler Musgrave (00:25:24):
But there's been some scenarios where that didn't work as well because, kind of screwed her up for the next two years of her life by doing that.


Andy Musgrave (00:25:32):
But we don't use any drugs when we IVF, we just aspirate only,


Tyler Musgrave (00:25:35):
Right. But typically try to use that proven cow that has a good track record, good nursing ratio or may have something that has the phenotype and maybe high over one marble or high scrotal or has this that or the other EPD that we think is unique within that female. And then you can bring in, like we said earlier, you can bring in some new genetics and use on a cow like this, that or the other. We've got several cows and they're different types of cows that we flush typically that all have really strong attributes. And then you can bring these other bulls in to mate with them and hopefully have a good outcome.


Andy Musgrave (00:26:18):
They don't have really a lot of super high ratio in cows. And I got to think about that and I don't have a lot of super low ones either because to me they're all pretty even they're going to ratio pretty even because I've got the ones that are inferior, they're gone. So I don't have these big swings.


Tyler Musgrave (00:26:39):
They've been pretty tight on the culling process. So if there's problems, they're usually not around very long. Andy and I had this conversation this spring. We were looking at ratios, nursing ratios and track records of some cows, and there were some females that we are really high on that we really like because we see 'em every day, but we may not come and look at what their nursing ratio is and keep up with that as often as we maybe should. But this particular cow had four calves with their nursing ratio of 96 and she's one of the better cows. But then we were just talking, I told him, I said, in theory, think about this. What if I was starting an Angus herd and I went out across the country and one of my criteria is to buy a cow with a nursing ratio of three to 105 or two at 105 or just whatever that is, but just over 105 nursing ratio and I bought a hundred cows that have this criteria. Now I put all these cows and assembled them into my new herd. Right off the bat, half of those cows are going to start ratioing at under a hundred


Mark McCully (00:27:44):
Right, right


Tyler Musgrave (00:27:46):
So I guess it's all in theory, it's perspective, but that's just where our minds go on stuff sometimes. So yeah.


Mark McCully (00:27:56):
So I love your tagline. I think it's Angus that thrive. So describe what that means for you guys. I know you've gotten into a little of it here, but maybe go a little deeper.


Tyler Musgrave (00:28:06):
So Angus that thrive. I guess one of the ultimate philosophies, one of the ultimate things we're trying to achieve here is to breed genetics that will go out in a multitude of environments and thrive. And I think that it's important to raise cattle that have a low input cost and that don't have a lot of problems kind of a problem free animal and long term, I mean that's going to be the ideal animal that people are going to be drawn to. So Angus that thrive are just kind of creating genetics that will go out in a multitude of environments and do well for the new customers. So I guess it's as simple as that. So I was looking at some other, they just have to do good.


Andy Musgrave (00:28:52):
If they're not doing good for customers, we're not doing good.


Tyler Musgrave (00:28:56):
So ultimately we want to create a product that goes out and does well for others. So I think that's what everybody wants to do, but that's something that we take to heart and we really want people to have good luck with the cattle that they use and buy and purchase and use semen or embryos or whatever it might be. But we really want people to have good luck


Andy Musgrave (00:29:15):
And taking care of the customers is probably the most important thing. One of the most important keys you'll have to do to have a successful sale


Tyler Musgrave (00:29:24):
Pretty much.


Andy Musgrave (00:29:24):
Because if you don't take care of 'em, they're going to go somewhere else and there's a lot of places to go and there's a sale every day. So you have to be, everything isn't sugarcoat. Things happen. We have problems with things, believe it or not, we have problems and you just have to be the first there to do whatever they want to do, take care of their problems, it's all fine then, you've just got to take care of them. You've got to communicate.


Tyler Musgrave (00:29:49):
Well, nothing travels faster than word of mouth. And usually bad news travels faster than good


Mark McCully (00:29:55):
Just a nickel faster. Yeah,


Andy Musgrave (00:29:57):
Just do what they want to do and everybody will be better off.


Miranda Reiman (00:30:02):
So you guys said that they've got to thrive for their customers. They've got to do good for your customers? How do you make sure that they are, how do you keep up? What's your communication line with your customers to make sure that you're providing them exactly what they need?


Tyler Musgrave (00:30:15):
We visited them in the summer, we try to make a lot of herd visits. We don't get the time to make as many as I'd like to make. I think it's important to go visit people, kind go see what their operation, their ranch looks like,


Andy Musgrave (00:30:28):
Call 'em and visit with them, how things have done for 'em.


Tyler Musgrave (00:30:30):
Call and visit, go to their operation, look at the management practices and maybe also what kind of feed resources they have in their area and what type of cattle might fit that environment better.


Andy Musgrave (00:30:45):
Because you get a lot of questions when you go there and start looking around visiting with them. And we pick up on ideas from our customers. We've seen things they do and they've asked us things we do. And


Tyler Musgrave (00:30:55):
There's a lot of different management styles out there. And I think that's one of the things that's really cool about raising Angus cattle because management styles are typically based on environment and resources and it's fun to go see how other people manage what they have and how they're progressing and how they make their livelihoods. So that's one part of Angus that thrive. I think also in that equation of Angus that thrive. One thing in breeding cattle, we haven't really tried to follow extremes, try to keep cattle balanced, don't want 'em to be too extreme in any direction, whether it's frame or hair coat or milk EPD, but try to keep 'em balanced kind of in the middle. And it seems like those cattle can go out there and do the best most of the time, not all the time, but most of the time those cattle can go out there and thrive if they're not too extreme in any one direction.


Andy Musgrave (00:31:55):
You asked about breeding philosophy and this spring, I guess as we bred, we used less bulls probably this year than we ever have our side groups will go to. And we were really, really, really picky on hoof quality.


Tyler Musgrave (00:32:13):
Probably the number one question we get from people.


Andy Musgrave (00:32:16):
First thing they'll ask. Breeding philosophy. We're going to have, I mean we looked at nothing else and we're just visually trying to make feet, bulls to cows, trying to correct things. That would be one of 'em this year. Second one is scrotal. I'm trying to push the scrotal pdf, I'm trying to make a calf crop where they're all ones and up. And then you won't have to worry about it hopefully. But that's a big thing to me selling bulls, because to me some of the scrotal has been lost in cattle, so I'm watching that pretty closely. That and the quality, then along with to me phenotype comes next, they're going to have to be nice looking cattle.


Tyler Musgrave (00:33:01):
Well they got to be easy fleshing, deep body, thick made, these guys, and going and looking at a lot of different operations. Most of those guys probably aren't going to take care of that bull the way that's taken care of here at Musgrave Angus. So when they go collect him in the fall and bring him in, he still needs to have a pair of pants on and he needs to still kind of look like a bull. And most of the time if he gets the cows bred, they're going to be pretty happy and he'll feed back up and they'll be happy.


Andy Musgrave (00:33:29):
Good muscling. I told Tyler that you haul a bull 600 miles across the country, he is on the trailer with eight other bulls and they're banging around. They're going to kind of get wrung out looking when you unload them and you back up to a guy's loadout and you're standing there with him and you swing the door open and there he goes down through there and his first look is from behind and he runs down through there 30, 40 foot and that's that guy's first impression's going to stick in his mind a while if he's never seen him before. So you better be kind of stout, have something between your legs when you're taking off down through there. We need to breed for that.


Tyler Musgrave (00:34:05):
Right.


Mark McCully (00:34:06):
Makes sense.


Andy Musgrave (00:34:07):
It's going to stick with you.


Mark McCully (00:34:09):
How about fescue, guys, you're in a fescue belt. How do you try to genetically hair shed, I mean, do you use the EPD or is it more around you know the cattle that shed quicker?


Tyler Musgrave (00:34:20):
No, the cattle. Never have used the EPD, you know the cattle, I mean we study it all the time. So you know the pedigrees.


Andy Musgrave (00:34:28):
We've got rid of cows that are hold hair and stuff, but we really, I don't know, we've never really thought about it. They just shed off.


Tyler Musgrave (00:34:33):
You've got to have cattle that slick out pretty well.


Mark McCully (00:34:37):
They just sort themselves out if they don't fit.


Tyler Musgrave (00:34:39):
Yeah, there you go. They do, right? They do. In the cow herd here, it's been fescue tolerant for years and years. So you take that into consideration. So half of this DNA is going to come from the cow when you breed to these different bulls. So most of the time you're not going to have too much trouble with hair shed in the fescue, but fescue has, there's other problems with fescue in that. I think that that's one reason you've got to have cattle that are easy fleshing because they're not going to go out there through the summer and they're not eating, I mean fescue, what is it? 7%, 4 to 7% protein during the summer. So they're not going to go out there and get hog fat on that and they're going to have to eat a lot of it and it is high moisture. So they're going to have to have cattle with a lot of capacity so they can eat a lot and convert that into protein.


Andy Musgrave (00:35:28):
And fescue throws a lot of challenges with breeding and staying bred and hoof quality I would say too, because it raises their body temperature immensely that would cause feet to grow and that would cause them to slip a calf midsummer.


Tyler Musgrave (00:35:44):
I dunno, we don't really think about that. There's host of problems, but any environment has its own challenges, has problems.


Miranda Reiman (00:35:53):
When you guys talk about breeding and having kind of balanced cattle and you don't shoot for extremes and those kind of things, how do you also balance that with, I mean you've had some bulls that have made it, I guess is what I'll call it. How do you get those ones that are kind of stars in the breed while also trying to breed all your cattle the same, I guess?


Tyler Musgrave (00:36:17):
If we knew the answer to that question, we'd do it more often.


Miranda Reiman (00:36:22):
Well it feels like you've got quite a few on list that


Andy Musgrave (00:36:25):
That's just luck.


Miranda Reiman (00:36:26):
Luck.


Mark McCully (00:36:28):
Let's talk about some... Tell the story. I love hearing some of the stories and I don't know the story, but Bando 1961 maybe, that's a bull


Tyler Musgrave (00:36:36):
Well that's an Andy story. Yep. Andy can take the 1961 story. I probably can do the 316 story.


Andy Musgrave (00:36:44):
I was planting corn, I was planting corn. Lemme think of it. Nope. We got Quintin Smith's sale book in the mail and that was on the era when 5175 was very popular and saw there was a flush of bulls in there out of a Miss Cheyenne cow. And Danny May at the time was helping Quintin the late Quintin and at Oklahoma State I was friends with Danny May. So I called him and I asked him about those bulls and he is like, yeah, they're pretty nice. There's one that's really nice looking one, and I think he's a pretty nice bull. So I was planting corn and my dad loaded up in the truck one morning early and we needed the bull badly to turn out and he drove down there and looked at the bulls and there was a bigger frame full brother to him, I think brought more, didn't he? Yeah,


(00:37:33):
He did. He was a top seller. But my dad said this other 1961 that he was the best one. So he gave a whole $3,500 for him and bought him and Tom Burke was sitting there watching him sell right through the ring. And after the sale he loaded him and Quintin shook my dad's hand and oh, thanked him for coming. He said that bull will do a good job for you. And he did a real good job for it. Bando came home, he got turned out with cows,


Tyler Musgrave (00:38:00):
It was heifers.


Andy Musgrave (00:38:00):
Yeah, he bred in that fall, he bred cows. He lived with cows all winter and he went back with the cows. He just lived with cows.


Tyler Musgrave (00:38:07):
Yeah, I don't think anybody actually saw that bull until he was mature. We kind used the dickens out of him. Don Trimmer


Mark McCully (00:38:14):
Don Trimmer came through


Tyler Musgrave (00:38:15):
Yeah, Don was here,


Andy Musgrave (00:38:17):
Celebrated


Tyler Musgrave (00:38:17):
And the rest is history after that. I think still as more people used the bull. And at the time, I think when people kind of discovered him, we had daughters in production and that was way before the era of social media. So you actually had to go out to the farm and people had to come here to look at 'em. So we got a lot of traffic


Andy Musgrave (00:38:38):
You had to call people because I remember calling Tim Fitzgerald and asking about that Cheyenne cow. Oh, she was really good, he said, when they showed her and blah blah, blah, because we inspected her a little bit, we just kind of found out about him making the old phone calls


Mark McCully (00:38:52):
And went on to have a huge impact. Yeah,


Tyler Musgrave (00:38:55):
Yeah. 1961, I don't know if he was maybe fifth in the breed for registrations one year, 1961 was, or third maybe,


Andy Musgrave (00:39:04):
They could be 16 years old and look like they're four years old. Great udders, feet stayed good on them. They were good cattle


Tyler Musgrave (00:39:11):
Going back further than 1961 and just talking about our relationship with Don Trimmer, and that's another one that can probably chime in on was the War Alliance 9126. That was the very first bull that we had leased with an AI company


Andy Musgrave (00:39:28):
From Wagonhammers we purchased


Tyler Musgrave (00:39:29):
And Andy went to the sale and bought him. I thinking that was at the time, I think it was in 2000.


Andy Musgrave (00:39:36):
It was right before things


Tyler Musgrave (00:39:38):
1999 was the year we bought that bull, 1999. And at the time we had


Andy Musgrave (00:39:43):
8,750 for him


Tyler Musgrave (00:39:44):
 And that was a pile of money. 8,750 was a pile of money.


Andy Musgrave (00:39:49):
It was before. It was just on the break before bulls really started bringing a lot of money I thought.


Tyler Musgrave (00:39:53):
Yep. And I think Vance Uden was there


Andy Musgrave (00:39:58):
...a lot for him. Yep.


Tyler Musgrave (00:39:59):
He commended Andy on buying a hell of a bull.


Andy Musgrave (00:40:01):
Yep.


Tyler Musgrave (00:40:02):
That War Alliance that was a, but that's kind of when the relationship with Accelerated Genetics started was with War Alliance, and then it blossomed into 1961 and then further down the road with Connealy Reflection and that was the top selling bull at Connealy, I think in 2003. First bull to walk in the ring and we paid 13,000 for him. That was the top selling bull that day. So things have really changed, haven't they?


Mark McCully (00:40:28):
I think they average that this year. Yeah,


Tyler Musgrave (00:40:30):
No, a little more. A little more.


Mark McCully (00:40:34):
And then how about capital?


Andy Musgrave (00:40:35):
Jerry actually wanted to buy him back, didn't he?


Tyler Musgrave (00:40:37):
He? Yeah, Jerry wanted to buy reflection back at one time. I think he's went on to be a Pathfinder sire now Reflection has. So he was good. He was an excellent sire too.


Andy Musgrave (00:40:47):
It seemed like it used to be easier to find those bulls.


Tyler Musgrave (00:40:51):
Seemed like it.


Andy Musgrave (00:40:51):
It used to be easier to find them.


Mark McCully (00:40:54):
Why is that? It should be easier to find them today with everybody's got a camera and video.


Miranda Reiman (00:41:00):
Do you think everybody else has found them now?


Mark McCully (00:41:03):
Yeah


Andy Musgrave (00:41:03):
Thought about that and thought about that, but it seemed like they were easier to find 20 years ago.


Tyler Musgrave (00:41:11):
I don't know.


Andy Musgrave (00:41:12):
I don't know if they've changed.


Tyler Musgrave (00:41:13):
I think it's, there's more good ones now, so it's harder to select them. Could be. There actually is cattle, if you go back and I'm kind of the history nerd on Angus cattle, I've got, my office is filled with all kinds of stuff, kind of like Tom Burke has his hall of fame, but there's nothing on the ceiling in here yet. But if you look back at history and pictures of the cattle, they really came a long ways. The progression is widely noticeable. Cattle are, I think they're better today than they've ever been. I think the breed's right on target with the good cattle. But anyway, they're right there where they need to be.


Mark McCully (00:41:51):
How about the story on Capitalist, or is there a story?


Tyler Musgrave (00:41:56):
There is a story. So I think Andy was at Connealys' that year when Capitalist 028 sold and liked that bull quite a bit. Really liked, he was really wide and thick and very dense made. And then when they had that first group of sons, well Melvin had gone out to Connealys' to look at that first group of 028 sons and there was one there that kind of stuck out and we tried to buy, I think Raven Angus ended up buying them, but he brought a little more that day than a little more than 13,000 that day. But I think he brought 65 or something,


Andy Musgrave (00:42:29):
74.


Tyler Musgrave (00:42:30):
So he was a little higher than we were going to go. And at the time we were using a bull called Musgrave Aviator and Tanya Belsham in British Columbia had bought Aviator here at the sale maybe two years prior to that.


(00:42:44):
And I was on the phone with her and she said that, asked if I had heard of a place called Ludington Cattle, Oklahoma.


Andy Musgrave (00:42:51):
Didn't she buy a bull there?


Tyler Musgrave (00:42:53):
She went there and looked at the cows, I think maybe that summer. And she was looking at the videos and she said there were some pretty good 028 sons in the videos. I got on Superior, looked at the videos and then called Ky Luddington, talked about the bull and whatnot, and Connealys' sale was on a Saturday and then Luddington's sale was on a Monday at that time. So Melvin drove from Nebraska down to Oklahoma. He gets there to look at the bull and he calls up and he says, man, it's a good thing to buy that bull at Connealys', this one's really good down here. So that was 316. And yeah, he did good things. The bull did a lot of good. I had a call yesterday from actually two calls this past week on 316, people still wanting to buy volumes of semen and it's just not available now like it was


Andy Musgrave (00:43:43):
This day in that bull's prime when he was on pasture here with cows is the best animal animal I've ever seen. It was just like


Tyler Musgrave (00:43:50):
He's remarkable. Yeah, he was so good when he was five years old, man, there wasn't anything better. I mean you could just wear out a phone taking pictures of him. He was a lot of fun. So God rest his soul, he is buried at World West Sires in Montana and I think his head is being mounted, so I think he's going to reside at World West in the office when they get him done. So


Andy Musgrave (00:44:14):
I bred a few cows to him this spring.


Mark McCully (00:44:16):
Speaking of heads being mounted, I think when I stopped by your place, Stunner had just, you had just got the Mount I think that day. Is that right? That was,


Tyler Musgrave (00:44:26):
That's right. Yeah. Stunner was brand new that day


Mark McCully (00:44:28):
A couple of springs ago. Yeah.


Tyler Musgrave (00:44:30):
Yep.


Mark McCully (00:44:31):
Another bull.


Tyler Musgrave (00:44:32):
He's still looking good. He's still hanging up and we got him in a different building. But he's still hanging up.


Andy Musgrave (00:44:36):
Still hanging around.


Tyler Musgrave (00:44:37):
Oh yeah, he's still around.


Mark McCully (00:44:38):
Tom's not tried to get him at the hall, has he?


Tyler Musgrave (00:44:41):
He has. But,


Mark McCully (00:44:42):
Of course he has.


Tyler Musgrave (00:44:43):
He's going to stay safe and sound here.


Mark McCully (00:44:47):
Where's Exclusive at?


Tyler Musgrave (00:44:47):
So Exclusive is buried down at the farm. Yeah, I had a stone made for him. But yeah, been a lot of fun. A world of good and had numerous sons that did an excellent job. And just to think, if you look at pedigrees and stuff and even catalogs, sale catalogs today, the impact that LD Capitalist 316 has had on the breed, not just in the American database but in the Australian database as well. And in New Zealand that bull got used heavily.


Andy Musgrave (00:45:19):
He was by far and away our most impactful sire


Tyler Musgrave (00:45:21):
Very impactful.


Mark McCully (00:45:23):
We just got back from Australia in the World Angus tour and as you would appreciate to know, as we were going through looking at some pedigrees, we definitely saw some of your influence down under Most certainly. Yeah.


Andy Musgrave (00:45:38):
Was that a nice trip?


Mark McCully (00:45:39):
It was, yeah, it was. Some great people, some great cattle, great country. Yeah, it sure was.


Tyler Musgrave (00:45:45):
Looked like an amazing event.


Mark McCully (00:45:46):
You touch on Australia and New Zealand. Andy maybe mentioned that earlier that you guys are looking at some, I think you guys sampled some New Zealand genetics or some Australian New Zealand genetics I think, right?


Tyler Musgrave (00:45:59):
New Zealand


Mark McCully (00:46:00):
New Zealand?


Tyler Musgrave (00:46:01):
Yes, we did. Yep. A bull named Taimate Roy R38. And I'm not even, I follow along a lot of the different programs in New Zealand on Facebook and Australia, but kind of as an Angus enthusiast, I just like to look at videos and pedigrees and pictures, just all the content I can absorb in a day.


Andy Musgrave (00:46:23):
Well didn't Lindsay Jones put you on him?


Tyler Musgrave (00:46:25):
But yeah, I was looking for kind a role of use through the ET program that offered a different pedigree that was out, total outcross. That's so hard to find this day and age. Something that really has a true outcross pedigree. And a good friend of mine, late Lindsay Jones actually Lindsay Jones was the fellow that imported the first semen to New Zealand in Australia on 316. He was the guy that kind of set that up for us.


(00:46:51):
But anyways, Lindsay's passed now, but he found this bull Taimate Roy R38 and went to the stud and looked at the bull and he thought this one, he said, this might be the bull that you're looking for. So had a native pedigree, had the phenotype that we like more of an American phenotype phenotypic look, that stoutness and bone and that softness to him and kind of a long process getting semen up here on a bull from a stud down there. It took about eight months to get it here and then once it gets here, get him tested, ran through the system, we got a genomic profile made and got the defect packs on. And surprisingly that bull came through and his EPDs look pretty good for a bull that came into our database.


Andy Musgrave (00:47:42):
Transferred over well


Tyler Musgrave (00:47:43):
Transferred over really well because two main things we were trying to incorporate with a bull like that with calving ease and scrotal and foot quality.


(00:47:52):
And I think if you look him up in the American database, he is like a top 2% for claw and angle and he is still high scrotal, pretty high dollars in maternal for


Andy Musgrave (00:48:04):
His calving ease


Tyler Musgrave (00:48:04):
His calving ease, high CED. So we got lucky sold the first semen. So I actually made an agreement with Taimate Angus down in New Zealand, but we sold the first semen in our online sale back in November and we sold only a hundred straws or 120 straws in an average $410 a straw. So I think it was a record price for semen sold from New Zealand. So it was pretty cool. We'll have the first ones in the fall.


Miranda Reiman (00:48:34):
You say it's harder to find those bulls, but I'm guessing you weren't, Melvin wasn't going down there to find an outcross back in the day. So in some ways it's easier if you've got connections and video and all that.


Tyler Musgrave (00:48:49):
Oh yeah, yeah. This day and age you've got videos and Facebook videos,


Andy Musgrave (00:48:55):
Cell phones have changed the world


Tyler Musgrave (00:48:56):
Cell phones have changed the world is exactly right. Yep.


Miranda Reiman (00:49:00):
Maybe that GPS too, Andy, you can be sitting in the corn planter looking at bulls.


Andy Musgrave (00:49:06):
I do ... look at lots of stuff.


Mark McCully (00:49:11):
That's great. Well we've been holding you guys captive here for a while. I guess I would though, you talked about where the state of the breed, I guess today I'd just be curious as you guys think about where we're at today as a breed. I mean what's your read, what things are you most excited about? Where do you think the things we're going to have to focus on in the future? That's a wide open question. So you can go wherever you want to go with it.


Tyler Musgrave (00:49:35):
Might let Andy go first on that one.


Andy Musgrave (00:49:37):
That is wide open. What I think what I really think


Tyler Musgrave (00:49:42):
Watch out.


Andy Musgrave (00:49:45):
I think we have all of the technology tools we need to drive forward and that's been taken care of well with the genomics and EPDs and it is, like a fast moving pace and game and that's all right. And people utilize it probably differently than what we do in our environments in different areas as far as carcass, EPDs and whatnot goes. But I just think people still need to just step back and look at 'em sometimes. And Angus need to look like Angus. I think some Angus don't look Angus anymore. I think they need to just kind of go back to where their roots were as being a wedge shaped maternal machine that's clean and feminine and robust in their body shape and good square udder. I think bulls need to look like bulls, have some crest and thickness and Aberdeen look to 'em. I guess moving forward that would be my philosophy, because every other tool's out there, you can put numbers on things, you can race it up real quick, but just step back and look at them and keep 'em looking nice. And I think so many other breeds utilize the Angus cow to influence their breeds, to make their breeds better. Every breed's done it basically. It's the mother breed, but I think it should stay looking like the mother breed instead of getting to be looking, I don't want to say exotic, but just try to keep saying it's in perspective. Don't get too wild everywhere, just keep 'em looking like they should look, what made 'em famous. That's how I think. I mean that's really the state of breed where we're at, but


(00:51:32):
That's what I think people should,


Mark McCully (00:51:33):
That's great. No, great perspective


Andy Musgrave (00:51:33):
...hopefully look at and take in perspective a little bit. There's so much to fall into. You can fall into a lot real quick and you can get in trouble real quick. But the thing is you should just step back and focus on quality. I think let everything else come next. I think we'd be better off.


Miranda Reiman (00:51:53):
Tyler, we give you a lot of time to think about that.


Tyler Musgrave (00:51:57):
Yeah, so I'll second that, Andy, he's right. Cattle do need to look more Aberdeen, they need to keep that look. But when you say the word Aberdeen, I think some people might get the perception or idea that they would be moderate or small. No, I mean just still have that nice Angus female head and bull head,


Andy Musgrave (00:52:15):
They're maternal...


Tyler Musgrave (00:52:16):
...the performance and size that is relevant to the industry today. So I think one of the challenges coming forward is, I mean everybody knows this and we talk about it all the time, but numbers aren't growing, the cow herd isn't growing, you don't see numbers increasing across the country. There's a wide variety of things that would impact that. One, the age of these guys that have cattle. Two, the need for labor and people that have some experience and background raising cattle. So it's not like you can't just go get regular labor, you got to get somebody with some experience. But I think Angus has a challenge because the demand of the market is so big that Angus might have a hard time keeping up with it. So we're trying to feed a market that's so big, it's hard to multiply these things quick enough to feed that demand.


Andy Musgrave (00:53:14):
The numbers don't meet the...


Tyler Musgrave (00:53:16):
So I mean one way to ...


Mark McCully (00:53:17):
And maintain quality.


Tyler Musgrave (00:53:20):
...and maintain quality. So I don't know. I think that for us we're try to make cattle with the bigger carcass weight because I think carcass weight is going to have a lot of importance down the road. You got all these new facilities being built, I'll name drop sustainable beef that's in production now, but there's other ones across the country that are similar to that that are going up and there's going to be a lot of demand for product. I mean the only way that place is going to work, if you've got product and I will touch on there is one of those being built here in the state of Illinois and it will be close, similar in size to the sustainable beef project. And that's kind of the focus there would be carcass weight and size and there's going to be demand for product. These places, they're spending hundreds of millions of dollars to build these places. You got to have product. There's going to be a lot more competition in the market trying to buy feeder calves and trying to source and buy these good Angus calves to run through these places. So I think that's a challenge for the breed moving forward. And because one, I mean something's going to fill the void, whether it's Angus or beef on dairy, something's going to fill that void and they're going to find cattle somewhere to run through that plant.


Andy Musgrave (00:54:35):
But I don't know how you fix that because you can't just go outside. You need to raise cattle, you need to raise cattle, and they have more and more and more. I don't know how you fix it.


Tyler Musgrave (00:54:42):
Yeah, I don't know how you fix it.


Andy Musgrave (00:54:43):
People pass away and sell herds and families disperse it and I dunno how you fix it. It's a hard question to fix if it is fixable.


Mark McCully (00:54:54):
You bring up, and this is probably a whole nother, whole nother podcast, Miranda, but you bring up the plan. I am curious, especially as an Illinois native, do you think, will that reinvigorate some cattle feeding, some finishing cattle, maybe some hoop barns and things in Illinois or in that eastern corn belt or the corn belt I should say. But that part of the world, will it reinvigorate a little bit of cattle feeding?


Tyler Musgrave (00:55:19):
It will, yes.


Andy Musgrave (00:55:20):
I'd say it's too easy to drive a tractor.


Tyler Musgrave (00:55:23):
I mean, the demand's there and the size and scale of this project, there are going to be several thousand head of cattle fed here in Illinois now that go along with this project


Andy Musgrave (00:55:32):
With current big cattle prices, it will intrigue people more. They get interested in them. You know what I mean?


Tyler Musgrave (00:55:39):
Today's standards of what we're doing. We grain farm quite a bit too. I mean, you can definitely make more money raising cattle than you can grain farming. Right? There's a bigger margin raising cattle than there is row crop farming for sure. So incentive is there,


Andy Musgrave (00:55:53):
If they want to work


Tyler Musgrave (00:55:54):
...if they want to work. It's a challenge, it's a job, but the incentive is there. And I think it will be a changing landscape here in the state of Illinois with more cattle being fed because there's going to be more opportunity and more demand for that product here locally and something to that scale and not just in Illinois. It's going to draw from surrounding states that bring in to supply that.


Andy Musgrave (00:56:20):
More on farm feeders raising up in Illinois because it isn't like you have to raise cow-calves. You can run feeder cattle and you can build a hoop barn and you can still do your row crops and you still feed your cattle and you can still sell 'em,


Tyler Musgrave (00:56:33):
Right? With something like this, I mean, if you even had some contract feeders with this and you could put up a building that would definitely be centered for a young family that feeds a few thousand head of cattle, maybe in a confinement scenario if that would work. But I think there's opportunity like that that's out there, but finding the people and the families that are willing to do the work and one that want to do it, that might be the challenge. That's the harder part.


Mark McCully (00:56:58):
Well, maybe that's the expansion plan to make room for those seven boys.


Miranda Reiman (00:57:01):
You were thinking right along my line, Mark


Mark McCully (00:57:02):
I was like, that sounds like


Tyler Musgrave (00:57:03):
Feeder cattle. Part of the plan. Yeah.


Miranda Reiman (00:57:06):
I mean Schiefeibeins' always made him bring back a new idea. Yeah.


Mark McCully (00:57:10):
Very good.


Andy Musgrave (00:57:11):
I got a question for Mark.


Mark McCully (00:57:13):
Oh no, I ask the questions here. No, what you got?


Andy Musgrave (00:57:17):
Step brothers, we're going to ask the questions now.


Mark McCully (00:57:22):
Fire away


Andy Musgrave (00:57:23):
Tomorrow. I don't know if it's the big day, but don't some numbers change tomorrow?


Mark McCully (00:57:28):
Yes. Yeah. So we're recording this on the 22nd. The numbers change. We'll go live tomorrow morning on the 23rd. Yep.


Andy Musgrave (00:57:35):
Right, right, right, right. That'll be it.


Miranda Reiman (00:57:38):
Do you want a crystal ball, or what's the question?


Andy Musgrave (00:57:41):
So what impacts that? The functional longevity, what comes into play there to make that?


Mark McCully (00:57:48):
Yep. And I won't probably be able to do this completely justice. We actually just recorded a video that's kind of a webinar that's going to go out on our website here. I don't know if it gets out first of next week or maybe even tomorrow if they've got it finished. So it can go into a lot more detail. But the big thing is functional longevity, which we've had out as a research EPD and then teat and udder, which we kind of think of it as one EPD, but there's really two. It's one suspension and the other is teat size. So technically those are three EPDs that will all, so they're going to move out of a research EPD and move into what we term a production EPD, meaning every week everybody will see those. They'll go right on the pedigree now or on the paper I should say. And then the changes as those come live, those now will be worked into $M, maternal weaned calf values. And there there's been a few other changes every year, of course, we update the economic assumptions that are underneath the indexes. So those update to the new seven year rolling average. So that goes into effect. We had another little change on heifer preg just kind of the way, again, they'll explain that well in the video, but some little tweaks to the heifer preg model


Andy Musgrave (00:59:14):
There's some influence taking off of it, I think.


Mark McCully (00:59:16):
Yeah. Yep. Yep. So all of that will be updated again on May 23rd and go live. So the big changes are you're fitting more traits in to dollar maternal weaned calf value or $M that are going to include now functional longevity. So again, trying to use the data that members have submitted around with inventory reporting and use that data that we've now got a lot more data on disposal codes and how long those cows are staying in the herds. Really trying to find those genetics that stick around longer, which you guys well know as far as your commercial customers in particular. That's so important. And then fit teat and udder in there as well.


Tyler Musgrave (00:59:57):
I'm excited for it.


Miranda Reiman (00:59:59):
We'll be sure and link that video and those resources in these notes. So anybody who's listening and wants to go back and hear Kelli or Esther or Devin, explain it. We'll link that here so you can either read or watch


Mark McCully (01:00:10):
Better than McCully's explanation.


Miranda Reiman (01:00:12):
I didn't say that


Mark McCully (01:00:14):
You implied it. No, I would say it first


Andy Musgrave (01:00:16):
We won't get anything done for the first two hours tomorrow we'll be looking at what everything did. It'll feel like the election results.


Mark McCully (01:00:22):
There you go. There you go.


Miranda Reiman (01:00:24):
It's a good thing you're done with corn planting then.


Andy Musgrave (01:00:26):
Yeah.


Tyler Musgrave (01:00:27):
Yeah, that's right.


Miranda Reiman (01:00:29):
Well, we have kept you out of or off your to-do list here for a bit. So we always end with the random question of the week.


Tyler Musgrave (01:00:35):
Fire away.


Miranda Reiman (01:00:36):
I want to know of the brothers who was more likely to get into trouble as kids and who was more likely to be the one bailing 'em out of trouble?


Tyler Musgrave (01:00:47):
Andy was always in trouble, but he never got caught.


Andy Musgrave (01:00:48):
I'm good.


Miranda Reiman (01:00:52):
So you're not the one bailing him out?


Mark McCully (01:00:53):
You're like, that was what my older brother said about me, the younger brother, is that the younger brothers get in trouble or they do things, they just don't get caught.


Andy Musgrave (01:01:02):
That's right.


Tyler Musgrave (01:01:02):
That's about right.


Andy Musgrave (01:01:04):
I'm stealthy.


Miranda Reiman (01:01:07):
So no epic story there of that one time that you saved each other's skin or anything?


Tyler Musgrave (01:01:14):
Not too much, I don't think. There's a pretty significant age difference between the two of us.


Miranda Reiman (01:01:20):
I see.


Tyler Musgrave (01:01:20):
Yeah. Six years apart,


Andy Musgrave (01:01:22):
400 years


Tyler Musgrave (01:01:24):
400 years


Miranda Reiman (01:01:26):
Is that still the same today? Who's more likely to get into trouble and who's more likely to bail 'em out?


Tyler Musgrave (01:01:33):
Nobody gets in trouble. Nobody gets in trouble. Sometimes I get myself into trouble on social media.


Andy Musgrave (01:01:40):
I don't do social media.


Tyler Musgrave (01:01:41):
Andy's pretty tightlipped on his.


Andy Musgrave (01:01:43):
I don't even know how to make a Facebook post.


Miranda Reiman (01:01:46):
That's funny. You guys are being pretty buttoned up. I think. You're afraid your sons are going to listen to this. You don't want to give 'em too many ideas.


Mark McCully (01:01:53):
That's good.


Tyler Musgrave (01:01:55):
That's very well true. Yes.


Mark McCully (01:01:58):
Well, guys, we really appreciate this. This has been a fun one for sure, and just have a ton of admiration for you guys and what Melvin started and your family started there and what you guys have built on. It's fun to watch and brothers and hear you guys talk, and clearly it's a partnership and the success of your operation speaks for itself with the impact you've had and the success of your sales, and probably more importantly, the success of your customers. So congratulations and we just really appreciate you guys jumping on here today and having a conversation with us.


Miranda Reiman (01:02:35):
It's been fun.


Tyler Musgrave (01:02:36):
Thanks for having us. We look forward to continuing the conversation down the road too.


Andy Musgrave (01:02:40):
Yep, yep. Thanks you guys, and thanks for everything you do and on behalf of the Angus breeders.


Miranda Reiman (01:02:46):
Well thank you. And that's it for season six. Thanks for coming along with us for the conversations. We hope you've enjoyed the guests we've had on the topics we've covered and the stories we've shared. Be sure to catch up on all your past podcast episodes and your favorite podcast platform or look out for those special editions to come this summer. And to make sure that you never miss your daily dose of Angus news, subscribe to our AJ Daily. Visit angusjournal.net to learn more. This has been the Angus conversation, an Angus Journal podcast.